First, this is excluding personal preference, so HB is excluded from this.
This is with the exact same amount of funding, which is moderate funding.

Here is a Sader's calculations:
First, 5 slash blasts, hitting 6 monsters each, then a Coma hitting 6 monsters.
Slash blast = 130% per hit, Coma = 200% to 6 monsters. I am adding an average of 110% combo.

[(130% * 6 * 5) + (200% * 6)] * 110%
= 5490% damage


Now a DK
Much simpler, this is 6 Crushers hitting 3 monsters 3 times each.
Crusher is 170% per hit


170% * 3 * 3 * 6
= 9180% damage


So attacking 6 times, regardless of attack speed or weapon attack, DKs destroy saders.

Now a lot of people will say that Saders attack 2 times for each 1 attack for a DK. Unless Saders are using 1h swords, this is not true. However, if a sader does use a 1h sword, their damage range drops significantly. To demonstrate, I have used a damage range calculator and plugged in same str (500), same dex (50), only thing different being weapon.


For weapon, I used a level 100 weapon with 4 60%s that worked (for average spending). So + 8 attack and + 4 str.

(here are the formulas if u want them: Sword (STR * 4.0 + DEX) * W ATK/100 Spear (STR * 3.0 * 0.9 * Mastery + DEX) * W ATK/100)


Saders: 101 attack 4 str 1h sword, attacking nearly twice as fast as a DK. (not quite twice as fast because of booster).


Minimum Damage: 1150
Maximum Damage: 2086




DKs: 105 attack 4 str spear, attacking at almost half the speed of the sader.


Minimum Damage: 909
Maximum Damage: 2698


The DK's range is 130% better than the Saders. But there is still a few things to think about.

First: the sader is not doing anything specific with his sword, meaning that he can slash or stab completely randomely. So his attack is around 100% for slashing/stabbing. The DK is always stabbing, which gives him an extra multiplier every time he hits. This gives the DK another significant bonus over the Sader (i couldnt find exact multiplier for stabbing)


Second: as we all know, when switching attacks there is a slight delay. The Sader has to switch attacks twice every 6 attacks, whereas the DK can stick to using a single attack.


Third: though I havent actually done the calculations myself, it is general knowledge that a PA Dk is more effective at himes, so if you want to go the other way, DKs do even more damage.


PS. I left out the rage multiplier and the blood multiplier, but even the poorest DK can afford warrior pots, if you really wanna include that just give the Sader an extra scroll on his sword or something.

close thread pls. we dont need more bashing.

Why should there be any bashing?

i used a pole arm during my himing epoch. it was fun and pretty effective. no doubt that pa dragon knights outpace other types of warriors (including spear dks) in maps and mobs like himes.

the balance however is attained by the fact that crusaders, white knights, and spear dks can more easily fight higher level monsters that travel in lesser quantities (like leafre and aqua monsters).

imo they all ends up with the same leveling pace under the same conditions of funding. in other words, they all contribute to a balanced variation of the game =)

I agree with Chaz. This talk was more than enough on guild chat, dont have to drag them here Steve.

If this is just pure DK vs Sader, its fine. But your intention isnt, so I will close the thread.