Kat... you're adding brush to the fire....... :0 I advise you to stop....


Edit:

Oh and kat you are WAY too pro for you to even consider yourself remotely close to a noob

Please, we are not disputing the fact that Simon got hacked, but rather the circumstances. Simon says that he got hacked and I would like to believe that until people can prove other wise. We expelled him because we think he was exploiting guildies for personal gain. But we are all to blame. The guild members gave the donations out of free will so they gave their items knowing that they were never to see it again. Morally it is wrong to exploit kindness but they never had to donate. (sorry if I feel like i'm attacking people)

I would like to see this resolved and cease the finger pointing. We all had some error in our judgements and I would like to see this issue resolved as soon as possible. Simon I would like to personally talk to you about this so you can PM me or talk with me ingame if you see me. I don't have a lot of information since I wasn't online but I would like to investigate this and put an end to the finger pointing and the fighting. I need everyone's side of the story.

I want to walk out of this situation on good terms. I'll talk to people and get the whole story.

Simon, you never onced seemed like a bad person and I would like to give you the benefit of the doubt. I hate the thought of losing a friend. You should do your best to return the items or meso as fast as you are able and hopefully clear this up.

Sorry if that seems harsh or something but I needed to give my opinion.

PS: I hate to kick you when you're down, but you owe me 5 mil still Simon. >.<

I never thought that I insulted anyone, so I'm sorry if I did. I also don't feel like I really attacked anyone either, but once again, I'm sorry if anyone felt that way. I'm not sure if any of those comments were aimed towards me, but I just want to make sure anyway.

Once again, I wasn't adding my comments about the hacks/hacking to support anyone's sides. I was just saying as a general warning because I have heard/possibly experienced some of them. I apologize for that confusion. I probably should have moved them over to the "hacking" post.

Personally, I think that it's just respectful to inform someone why he/she was expelled. I know I would hate to be in a confused state after getting my little "You have been expelled. kthxbai" note. Maybe it can be a "This is why you were expelled. *insert reason* kthxbai" whisp. lol

Whenever I see anyone leave, I'm always curious as to why. When I see someone EXPELLED, then I'm even more curious since something must have happened to cause such an action. The only reason why I think that letting the members of the guild know WHY people are expelled is so that they can know what can result in their expulsion. Does that make sense? :/ Obviously the details wouldn't need to be known, but a general idea is never bad. I was curious as to the other recent explusions, but I guess I was just too afraid to speak up. Ironically, this situation has made me more comfortable with talking within the guild. >> WHO THOUGHT YOU COULD STILL BE SHY IN A GAME!?!?! lol. BTW, I think this information would just be given to those that ASK for it.

I don't know. Maybe my age is just showing here... >>;;;

OK, here is my suggestion to help get the guild straight. You need to decide, and then stick to your decision no matter what may happen in the short term, are you going to be a Social Guild (guild of friends, albeit active friends even if they spend majority of their time sitting around chatting and hanging out) or if you are going to be a Competitive Guild.

EDIT: *Quote has been removed per the request of a JR, of which I understand the reasoning and am willing to comply*
(Basically it was about JRs having to explain their actions when they do something, like expel a guild member)

This is the mindset of a Competitive Guild. They are only interesting in having Strong, Active members in the guild (for GPQs, Zruns, etc, etc).
A Competitive Guild usually has certain rules set up that you must follow (be on everyday / every week; lvl at least once a week, if below this lvl, once every 2 weeks if above that lvl; etc, etc) and if you fail to follow the rules you may and most likely will be immediately expelled from the guild, no questions asked, no warning. Also, the Ldr/JRs can at anytime expel ppl without warning and explanation (except maybe to the Ldr/other JRs), even if it was just because he/she didn’t like the person or wanted one of his/her friends in the guild instead of the person expelled.
Also, new rules and any changes to existing rules are effective immediately regardless of any consequences it may mean to guild members (ie, minimum lvl requirement raised, may mean some existing guild members are expelled for not meeting that minimum requirement).
The main concern for the Competitive Guild is meeting a specific goal (being ranked #1, winning NX guild contests, etc) or for Boss runs/parties (Zruns, Pap, Pianus, etc). Members usually are high lvl are mostly together for the status/name of the guild or simply for the ability to participate in the Boss runs/parties (most do not communicate outside of MS, except maybe to schedule a Boss run/party).

A Social Guild is more like a 1950's small town community where ppl openly communicate with each other, are willing to help each other out whenever they can or asked upon, and there are rules that must be followed but they are based and enforced more on a moral/ethical basis, meaning bad behavior is not tolerated, but we will give you the benefit of the doubt and ask you about the situation and give you a chance to explain. In terms of MS, the JRs will discuss the situation and determine the appropriate punishment, and because we are a tight-knit guild (community), the JRs will inform the guild (community) of the reasons behind the decision because we respect our friends (guildies) and want them to understand we are fair and unbiased (the 'inform' part could be a forum topic, a guild BBS, simply answering in guild chat when asked, or even a simple whisper to the person asking what happened, JRs can use their discretion based upon the situation).
Also, the JRs should try to give ample warning/grace period for any MAJOR changes or new rules for the guild because they want to give the guild members a chance to hear/read about the new changes or rules and then ask questions.
The main concern for the Social Guild is keeping the guild together and funded (for events, GPQs, and special circumstances). Members are together in friendship (and often are friends/relatives in RL and/or communicate to one another outside of MS). EDIT: or during the game in the case of Vent (?) :D

Now it is possible to have it both ways, but with a Guild of 90+ members, it is VERY, VERY difficult.

SIDE NOTE: Guildies, you should realize that the JRs do meet often and as far as I know, do discuss any MAJOR changes and potential punishments/expulsions BEFORE they are made (and try to have some sort of proof), so do not blame a specific JR when it is implemented, even if it seems like that specific JR seems to be the main one implementing them at a given time (could simply be that JR happens to be on more frequently at that time than the other JRs).